Finding Home Builder Marketing Support

Greg Bray: And we are excited to have joining us today, Sara Williams. Sara is now the founder at Aras&Co. Welcome, Sara. Thanks for being with us.

Sara Williams: Thanks so much for having me, guys.

Greg Bray: Well, Sara, you've been in this industry for a little bit. A lot of people know you, but not in your current role. So, give us that quick introduction and background about yourself.

Sara Williams: Fantastic. Well, I come with 21 years of [00:01:00] experience. Used to work for home builders and also tech companies, and launched my company just over the summer, Aras&Co. So, I'm acting as a marketing technologist and advisor, helping builders shop for their technology and their partners. Also, if they need help with strategy and oversight, I can absolutely do that too. And I can take on sales and marketing because that is my background. I've been in sales and marketing for probably 26 years, 21 being in the home building industry.

I've also been coaching individuals in their career as well, so I'm doing a lot of coaching. And I'm also helping not only home builders, I'm helping industry tech companies and industry service providers. So, I'm doing a lot more of that because that was more of my recent work. But I've met so many builders over the years, over the past 11 years, working, selling technology, and I literally have people call me; they have me on speed dial. They're like, All right, I'm shopping for this. What should I do? So, I've been doing that for a long time, so now I'm going to charge for it. Yeah.

Kevin Weitzel: Alright, so let's get [00:02:00] into Aras&Co. However, before that, you can't use family, the home building industry, or anything work-related; we need an interesting factoid about you.

Sara Williams: I did not get my driver's license until after college and after I started my first full-time job.

Kevin Weitzel: What? No. Oh. Let me ask you this, then a follow-up question.

Sara Williams: Yeah.

Kevin Weitzel: Did you drive before you had your license?

Sara Williams: I had my permit, if that counts, at the age of 16. I bought a car at the age of 17, but never got my license. So, I didn't illegally drive, if that's what you're asking.

Kevin Weitzel: So, yeah, I did because in Arizona, auto insurance was required. My first car was a '76 Dodge Dart that smoked like Uncle Buck's car. I couldn't afford insurance, so I just drove around without insurance. When I went in the Marine Corps, they said, Yeah, you have to have insurance to be able to drive your car on base. I'm like, What? So, I had to legally get insurance. It was kind of crazy.

Sara Williams: Well, that was a huge part of it. I'm one of seven kids, so I had to be able to pay for my own insurance. My parents were not able to provide. There were four of us in our teenage years at the [00:03:00] same time. So, I had to be able to do it all. There's a whole lot of story behind why I never got my license, and we can unpack that a different day.

Kevin Weitzel: That sounds good.

Greg Bray: Well, Sara, you mentioned that you've been doing a lot in home building and then home building technology specifically. Sometimes we get folks on here that kind of give the home building industry a little bit of a bad rap for their interest in technology and their willingness to embrace technology, and that we're a little slow and behind the times. Is that your experience with all the builders that you've had the chance to talk to about technology?

Sara Williams: I guess I should say it depends. It depends on, like, what year or era from when I started selling technology. When I started 11 years ago, I was selling CRM, and I was selling and changing people's minds. That was a huge part of it, right? Like, selling what your life would look like, that future promise of the CRM. So, when we think about 11 years ago, that wasn't that long, guys, people were not [00:04:00] using CRM. Which is like, what do you mean? How can you sell homes?

Because your dog groomer used it, your hairstylist used it. So, at that point in time, it was really a challenge, and I would say the whole time. Then, as I was finishing my tenure working for ECI and Lasso, I feel like we'd converted, right? We had converted a lot more people. And near my end, it was people making a switch, or they had used a free option, now it was time to upgrade. So, it was a bit different. And that was six years, I want to say that I did that.

Then I jumped over to Anewgo. That was during the rebrand, and they were very much becoming a technology company versus a rendering company. They did renderings. Kevin, you and I shared so many stories over the years, and referrals back and forth. That was interesting because when we started launching like the Buy Now and things like that, and that was like COVID times, so many people were coming to us saying, Finally. That was super interesting and a very fun time. Shout out to Michigan. Michigan, there's so many innovative people, so I didn't feel like I was selling this idea.

I felt like our [00:05:00] industry, maybe some industry experts weren't buying it, but if they were in my seat, talking, people were coming to us asking for these solutions and begging for it. At that point, I think, early COVID, John Lee was asked to create it. But anyway, so during that period of time, I saw so much more innovation and innovative-minded people. That was a 50/50 split, though.

The people I was talking to were very innovative, but I would hear chirping in the industry of people thinking shoppers aren't ready for this, our industry's not ready for this. So, I feel like it depends. I just was super fortunate to be talking to the builders that wanted innovation during that period of time. So, yeah. So, I feel like it just depends on the era that we're talking about.

Greg Bray: All right. Fair enough. I think probably the people who reach out are the ones who are more interested in the technology versus the other people you got to like chase them down and and wrestle them to the ground and say, Why aren't you using a CRM, still? There's still some of those out there.

Sara Williams: And there still people out there. Yes.

Kevin Weitzel: There are. And I'll give a pass to the builders that only build like five, 10 homes a year. If they handle it with an Excel spreadsheet, then [00:06:00] great. They don't have to hold their head in shame that they don't have a CRM. But when you get past that 10 homes a year, if you don't have a CRM, you are literally living in the Stone Age.

Sara Williams: Agreed. And I think too, when we even talk about interactive, and when we're talking about content and what's on your website, if you're a custom builder doing five homes a year and every house is different, that's not the right fit for all these things. A CRM, though, I do think if you're selling luxury, you definitely need to CRM. You actually need a really good CRM because you want to give that white glove service. Technology, depending on what you're selling, and having the right avatar client.

But I do think that based on whatever the tech is out there and who you're after, I think everyone can speak to where the buyer's mindset is or that builder's mindset. That small to mid-size builder, which so many of our service providers in our industry are after, a lot of them still need handholding, or don't even know about all the different things that they could do and all the partners that work really well together, and that's where I would step in.

[00:07:00] Just like you guys probably do for each other and sync them, that is what I've been doing for all these years, too, is syncing people together. These are really good partners that you would want to talk to that know each other, just like mortgages and builders, right? It's the same thing when you have the right mortgage provider; it just is an easier, frictionless experience. There's so many service providers that work really well together, and we all know the ones that don't play nice with others. I think all three of us know who those folks are. I would be able to say, They don't play nice. It's going to be a hard, full-on friction experience if you decide to go with this partner and this partner.

Greg Bray: So, Sara, when a builder comes to you and starts having some of these kinds of questions, before you can start making recommendations, you have to peel back a few layers of understanding. What are some of those questions that you would go and start asking them about their needs and requirements, and what they're trying to accomplish that would help you as you started to kind of try to push them in one direction versus another?

Sara Williams: Oh, absolutely. Well, first and foremost, like, why are you reaching out? [00:08:00] What's the problem? Tell me all the things, right? Acting as the therapist. What's going on in your business? Are we having a lead generation problem? Are we having a sales conversion problem? Are we just having sales issues? Really taking it first at the high level of like, what's going on, or what do you think is going on?

And then, go to the next peeled onion. Is it the process? Is it the tech or lack of tech? Is it the people? Is it the lack of training? Was it just a poor implementation? They could have all these fantastic tools that they've just didn't implement properly, or the sales folks aren't leveraging. That could be what's missing. So, peeling back the onion on what's really going on.

Right now, I hear all over my social, marketers are really in pain right now because either there's false expectations of what's happening. Maybe it's a visibility issue, lack of lead issue, lack of sale problems. So, all those types of things are kind of always fall on marketing's [00:09:00] shoulders. So, just really trying to figure out, is it something that's going on, or is it just the AI bots are not serving up your company? I believe, I don't know if everyone believes this, but I do believe more folks are buddy-buddy with their AI chatbots than they are with Google now. And if your company is not visible, like have you tested that? Are you seeding it?

And then Greg, I know, probably in your world, is making sure that SEO and the schema is like all written up, like in the way that they can be found based on the questions people are asking chatbots. So, those are the types of things that I think that onion just keeps peeling back. And working with their website provider and asking the right questions. I do think that a lot of times, builders just don't know what questions to ask their service providers, and I act as an interpreter. I can really find out what the root cause is and protect the service provider, too. Because a lot of times it's not their fault. Sometimes it is, but a lot of times it's not. It's bad implementation. It wasn't put on the website properly. Fill in the blank. We could go on and on here.

Kevin Weitzel: Yep.

Sara Williams: But you just keep peeling back the [00:10:00] onion to figure out like where it is. Another way to think of it is like looking under the hood and kind of doing the assessment. So, I start asking a lot of questions, but let them kind of tell you, and then start asking them those pointed questions.

Kevin Weitzel: Do you ever run into builders that come to you, and let's use triage. The triage is an easy thing for people to understand. Somebody comes to you, and the saying in the sales world is somebody's bringing you an injury that you have to be the bandaid to be that solution. A builder comes to you and they're like, Hey Sara, I've got this cut on my finger. I need a Band-Aid. I mean, what do you think? Should I go over this company for a bandaid or that company for a bandaid?

And yet you're looking at them, and you see this bone protruding out of their neck. How do you tackle those types of scenarios where they think that if we put a CRM in place, but they've still got scratch renderings on their website and they still have static floor plans that are nothing more than a pluck out of their construction documents? how often do you get that type of scenario where there's something so glaring, but they're asking you about this cut on their finger?

Sara Williams: Oh, goodness. So, just be like, Oh, I understand. So, you always, you know, make them feel seen and heard. [00:11:00] I mean, I don't want to sound patronizing by any stretch, but you want someone to feel seen and heard about their cut, and if that's why they came to you, you want to address that and make sure they're not bleeding out. But if you're saying it's a scratch, I'm like, I doubt they're bleeding out. But just make sure, you know, that's tended to, and then start asking some more questions.

Again, I am a consultant first, and that's how I've always approached sales. I think we're all probably in the same boat here, that I just start asking questions. I'm eternally curious on asking about, Hey, I was looking at your website. I've been in this industry a long time. I've done this for a living. Have you ever considered this? Or ask the questions: How are those converting for you? Do you find that you're getting traffic? Are people staying on your website longer? So, just navigating the waters, but also making sure it's not life or death. Right? If we're going with this example, making sure it's not life or death, guiding them.

Because, as we all know, you can't eat the elephant in one bite. [00:12:00] You have to take it bite by bite, piece by piece. And if they're interested in me putting a strategy together on how they can get the whole elephant or how they can get from A to Z, like that's absolutely something I can do. But I would definitely start asking questions and saying, Hey, how's the website performing? I see you're using a Wix website or whatever. I don't know. Oh, like or something?

Kevin Weitzel: That's a swear word in this world?

No. Oh. Like Squarespace? I don't know. It doesn't really matter, but like when you're a home builder, you have all these other components happening. How's that going for you? And just start asking questions, and then, as we all know, people start telling you other things, and then you can navigate the conversation. But you definitely don't want to come in too hot.

Greg Bray: So, I'm still waiting for Kevin to find a way to work in; it's only a flesh wound into this conversation.

Kevin Weitzel: Oh, no. I'm more of a Star Wars and, you know, Cohen Brothers type quoter. I'm not much into the old Monty Python stuff.

Greg Bray: So, Sara, somebody has said, Oh gosh, we need this new technology. We need this [00:13:00] new whiz bangy thing. Whether it's a piece of software, whether it's something on the website, whatever, they buy it and it doesn't work for them. What are the things you see that they have missed in those processes? Are there common mistakes that they make with some of these decisions and choices that get in the way of success?

Sara Williams: Holy cow. How much time do we have? Yes, yes, yes, yes. All of it. Well, let's just do a couple of quick examples, and you both can relate to some of them. Hiding, like they invest in, we'll just say a tool, and then it gets hidden. We'll use the website. How are things hidden on the website? It's just in that back corner. Nobody knows it's there. There's nothing to let people know it's there. It's just over there. And then the complaint is, it doesn't work. It didn't do anything for us. We got no leads. Let's talk about it. Where is it? That's like an easy one.

When someone invests in a tool, it depends on what the tool is, so this is not like one size fits all, but some of the gated stuff, I'm all about gating things to get a [00:14:00] lead. I was an online sales counselor. I understand all that, but there's some things that, as a consumer, it's too early to ask for my name. And I do see builders doing that a good bit, like asking too soon. I get frustrated when I'm trying to shop for something. They're like, Sign up for 15%, give us your email. And then it's like, Nope, you didn't get it yet. You have to give us your phone number. And I'm just like, I don't even know if I want it yet. Why are you asking me for all of this stuff?

Kevin Weitzel: We're considering you having you on this podcast. Could you give us your Social Security number? Yeah.

Sara Williams: Sell you my firstborn. So, those are the types of things where, I mean, they're easy ones, and then people wonder why it's not working for them. Yes, they might get a few names. I don't think they're going to get the results that they're after. There's a lot more that we can talk about.

Kevin Weitzel: I'll give you an example. We had a client that used our interaction with floor plans and had ferocious leads, and all of a sudden, they called me up in a panic. They're like, our leads have gone on the toilet. They're gone. And we were like, you know, what did you guys do? We did a solid forensic investigation. And the only thing we could [00:15:00] figure out is that, well, let's go check out their website. They had a new website, and it took seven clicks and two scrolls to get to an IFP, and they wondered why their leads went in the toilet.

Sara Williams: Yeah.

Kevin Weitzel: Seven clicks. It was embarrassing. They spent a ridiculous amount of money, completely giving a facelift to their entire website.

Sara Williams: I have seen that over and over again as well. The other thing too is we bought it, it got installed, but no one uses it. I always compared to CRM to gym memberships. And the reason why I used to sell gym memberships before I ever got into real estate. People know they need it. They know it's good for them. You only see results if you actually show up and do the work. It's when people don't see the results that they start complaining, and then they would cancel. And I'm like, well, you haven't showed up. You've been here twice in a month. That's why you're not seeing the results. So, it's very comparable. That's a really easy one.

The complaints were, my people wouldn't use it. You would get that, and then it's like, what's [00:16:00] the accountability? So, I feel like my whole entire career on the services side has been helping senior leaders be change agents. That's a huge part of who I am as a human. But that's who I've been always in business, especially the past 11 years. It's been a change agent in coaching leadership and executive to be that change agent because it's not a fun job to be a change agent. I love it, but it's not when you're in the trenches with sometimes it was your peer last week, and you just got promoted and now it's up to you to hold them accountable for X, Y, and Z. It's hard. That's hard. There's nothing sexy, really, about that, but the results are. The results are sexy, but you have to stay in and be committed.

So, my job has always been coaching people through that process to the point of I've created playbooks for senior leaders to take to their bosses. This is how we're going to implement this, and this is the how we're go show success. So they could prove to the bosses like they had a plan in place in order to implement said technology.

Kevin Weitzel: So, [00:17:00] implementation and internal adoption. Greg knows my saying. If you have a CRM and your sales team doesn't use it, what do they have, Greg?

Greg Bray: They're out the door.

Kevin Weitzel: Boom, out the door. They don't have a job. You don't use my CRM, you do not have a job if you're on my sales team.

Sara Williams: There's two things that I heard a sales coach say. Is it a training problem, or is it like a personality or attitude? So, if it's training, I can help you all day. But if it's that person, if it's their refusal to do it, I can't help. That's an attitude that even you, as their senior manager, can't change. That's a big deal, and that's a hard pill to swallow. I had someone on a team years ago when I was a director of marketing, and she made 200,000 plus dollars a year, and I'm going back a while.

And she was like, I make XY. She told me that. And I said, Do you sell everybody on the first visit? And she said, No. I said, well, how am I as your marketing director, how will I be able to drive that V-back bus? Because it usually doesn't come back unless there's some serious marketing involved. If [00:18:00] that name and number is not in the CRM. Again, I feel like it's so obvious, but goodness gracious.

Greg Bray: Sara, talk for a second about where the right time is to bring in partners. When you think about that VP of sales and marketing, they've got a lot on their plate, a lot of responsibilities. When's the right time for them to pull in, you know, maybe an agency or a service provider versus trying to do it themselves, or keep things in-house, or hire folks on their team? What are your thoughts there?

Sara Williams: I love that question. So, I think it depends. So, if we're talking about a marketer specifically, different marketers have different skill sets. There's the graphic designer type marketer, there's the strategist type marketer, and then there's also sometimes the technologist type marketer, and then there's the data-driven marketer. I have yet to meet someone that can do all of those. Never. You might be really strong and you can dabble or do okay, but I've met thousands and thousands of marketers over the past decade, and I've not met one that [00:19:00] can do all of those things.

So, I think builders believe whoever they hire should be able to do all those things, and that is definitely not fair. So, if I was that marketer, I would have to do a self-assessment. Or if I'm the owner of a company, you have to do an assessment of the person you're hiring and be self-aware of what your strong suits are and what they're not, what you know how to do really well. Or does it take you five hours to do that same activity, where I could hire Greg Bray to do it and his team and get it done, or fill in the blank person?

So, that's where you really need to look at your business, even if you're a director of marketing, a VP of marketing, VP of sales, look at your skill sets and look at the company as if it's your own business, and figure out, like, who is smarter at this? Who can get this done? Or if I want to learn more, can I bring in a coach? Or can I bring in someone that can get me on track and kind of help coach me up, so I can actually do these things now and put them as something I'm strong in if it's a skillset that they're not as strong [00:20:00] in.

Greg Bray: So, when you are talking to builders about their marketing, their sales, trying to coach them up, as you said, what are some of the first things that you start with in those types of conversations? Is there a particular place where everybody needs to be able to do A before we even worry about B, or is it just kind of all over the place?

Sara Williams: Oh gosh. That's a lot to unpack there because I've met so many people hired that have no experience in marketing roles, and then I also know people that have more experience than I do. So, I've seen it all. I've run the gamut. Someone like me, I was an online sales counselor and a marketing coordinator, and then I rose up to be marketing director. I took that path, from sales rep to OSC and marketer, and then to become a marketing director. So my path is different, so my skill sets are different.

So, for me, if I were to come in and figure out like what can they do, I have to just assess that person. What can they do? What can't they do? The key things, guys, I think we all can agree, is our job [00:21:00] as marketers, no matter what your background is, if you hired a graphic designer that's now running your marketing department, I have no shade for that because that happens all the time. So, I have zero shade for when that happens. But they do need to be able to help sell homes for a company.

So, if they don't have that, that would be immediate. If their background is not about generating leads, converting those leads, and to get them to the salesperson. We need to make sure the visitors on the website or to the sales center and then converting them, that the sales reps can convert them into appointments. So, that's really your measure of success. If they don't know that core background, that's the first place to start coaching. I would say that's where you have to start. If the folks already have that, it's alright if that builder's trying to level up.

 A lot of companies are starting to invest in technology, that is really a great place where I could plug in, me personally, because a lot of folks that have been doing it for a very short period of time they don't even know the technology in our space. Others that have been doing it for a long time, [00:22:00] I've been in technology for a decade. It's a lot easier for me to talk technology to marketers than for a marketer to stay abreast of everything that's out there, if they've been in the weeds doing their job. They might know a little bit, but I would be a great sounding board for those folks, and finding out what they know, what they don't know. The chances are they're not as in tune to all the tech that's available to them and how they can leverage it.

Greg Bray: Well, Sarah, we appreciate all the thoughts you've been sharing with us today. Do you have any kind of last words of advice to help our marketers out there before we wrap up?

Sara Williams: Oh gosh. Hang in there. I know it's not easy. I'm living the marketing life right now for different companies, so I know it's not easy. So, just hang in there and just remember it's fun. It is fun. We're changing lives, especially my home builders, you know, I'm working with service providers too. We're changing people's lives. Remember why you're doing this, and why you chose this industry; it'll recenter you. But just hang in there. I know it's rough out there, and things are [00:23:00] changing. We talked about this before we started recording, of just innovating and innovating yourself. Keep learning. That would be my final takeaway. Just do not stop learning because things are moving at light speed right now, especially technology.

Greg Bray: Well, Sarah, if somebody wants to, uh, learn more, connect with you, what's the best way for them to get in touch?

Sara Williams: You can reach me on LinkedIn or you can email me at sarahwilliams@arasandco.com.

Greg Bray: Thank you, Sarah, for being with us, and thank you, everybody, for listening today to the Home Builder Digital Marketing podcast. I'm Greg Bray with Blue Tangerine.

Kevin Weitzel: And I'm Kevin Weitzel with OutHouse. [00:24:00]